Multiple Guitar Effects without Tap Dancing – (Part 1.)
I get questions similar to this quite often. This is a well known problem with many guitarists today.
I decided to post the issue my client is having, and offer a few solutions to his problem.
Hopefully this will help others as well. I know I’ve personally been down this road many times.
I believe every guitarist gets to a point where this issue really does need to be addressed as a problem, and then quickly handled. It’s part of growth as a musician. You’re musical growth leads to pushing the envelope harder and harder to meet the demands that you are putting out there.
There’s nothing wrong with this at all… And I definitely agree it is frustrating.
Here’s the issue my client is having.
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Hey Bob, I’m having problems using my effects loop.
My gear is pretty simple.
1. Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier head 2 channels
2. Digitech gnx4
3. Dunlop Wah Pedal
4. BBE Sonic Maximizer stomp pedal
- To start I disconnected the wah and the sonic pedal.
- I want head distortion and my gnx in the loop.
I plugged my guitar direct to amp in, loop send to gnx guitar in, left out mono to loop return.
On my gnx I turned off all amp modeling for true head tone.
I only want my gnx for effects delay reverb noise gate chorus ect..
I have set a great tone with my head, and added effects like a distortion stomp for a little extra grit, reverb, delay, gate, and chorus.
The problem is when I change channels on my head for clean tone, I have all of this still on and my clean tone is a little distorted because of my effects.
I have a mode on the gnx for stomp box instead of presets but then I have to click my channel change then click my distortion stomp off so I get true clean.
Dude how do I achieve not tap dancing, I’m trying to figure out if there is a 1 button way for distortion and a 1 button way for clean, while using my head tone in combo with my effects.
In the past I’ve always set my distortion and clean through whatever effects processor I had so I could preset everything to 1 click. I have never loved my dirty tone because it was a processed sound, and its just not quality.
I created a great clean tone but again it has nothing to do with my head. Can I achieve this or is it time to go midi and get even more confused?
Also I tried using my sonic max and my wah in the chain and they don’t sound good should I use my wah in my guitar line to head?
Should my sonic max pedal be after my gnx or before it?
Sorry about the confusion
Thanks so much.
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As you can see this is a problem, and one I’m sure you’ve either already faced, or might one day.
Here’s a few solutions to this Tap Dancing Fiasco.
SOLUTION:
The very first thing you need to do is set-up a “Dry Patch” on your Digitech. WHY: because you need a patch that will allow your straight un-effected signal in and through the unit. This will allow the full tone of your amp to be retained.
A dry patch is not the same as the modeling amp turned off. You want to create an actual patch, and turn off every effect within that patch. You want zero effects on this dry patch – nothing.
Next, you need to find and set “unity gain” on the dry patch you’ve just created. The best way to do this is to get your amp sounding the way you want (with the effects loop empty). Then, once you get a killer sound out of the amp plug your Digitech into the effects loop with the “dry patch” on, and immediately listen for the differences.
You may notice a volume difference. You’ll want to take notice of all the differences. It could change your tone as well… Just take notice of everything that changes.
Now, unplug the Digitech from the effects loop. Once again listen to the amp on it’s own by allowing yourself a few minutes to play through just the head. Make sure your volume is balanced between the clean and dirty settings on your amp.
Next, set a comfortable stage volume level on the amp and leave it alone. Plug the digitech back into the loop and analyze the differences again.
NOTE: If you immediately need to adjust the volume, do it by lowering the output on the Digitech, not the amp. At this point DO NOT adjust the amp head for volume, use only the output of the Digitech for volume up or down.
Now, adjust the input of the digitech so it’s registering just below the red. No clipping. If anything, adjust it lower to be certain that you are not clipping the signal.
The reason the Output knob of the Digitech becomes your Master Volume is to keep unity signal flowing through the Digitech and the effects loop at all times. This allows the Boogie’s channel switching as well as everything else on the amp to function like it would if nothing were plugged through the loop at all.
I hope this makes sense… If you do this properly you shouldn’t even notice the digitech is in the loop at all when you’re on the dry patch. Now you can use your other programmed effects that you have within the digitech.
When you’re done with an effect, always go back to the dry patch when you leave an effected patch. This way when you go to the clean channel on the boogie it should sound as clean as it would if nothing were plugged in at all.
Each and every patch needs to be set individually, and then the master volume levels overall. You want to match each and every effects patch so that they are all congruent with each other in terms of volume.
Example: Let’s say you had a chorus effect that blended nicely between itself and the dry patch, but you had a flanger patch that was not as loud and didn’t blend well. You would adjust the volume levels inside the flanger patch itself to match the others. The same would apply in the reverse scenario… If you had an effects patch that was too loud, you would adjust the volume levels inside the patch itself to blend with the others.
If you take your time and do this for each and every effect, you should be able to click between all of your effects and hear a great balance of volume between all of patch including the “Dry Patch”. Check your clean channel too. There shouldn’t be any additional tone coloring or distortion from digitech at this point. Your clean channel should be as clean as it would be without the digitech.
This is a solid solution that will work for the gear you’re using.
Another Quick Solution… If your amp has an effects loop bypass on the back… such as a footswitch that controls the effects loop bypass,… you could have a single button pedal controlling two lines feeding into the effects loop bypass and the channel switching inputs together, so when you clicked the button it bypasses the loop and turns on the clean channel all at once. The only problem with this method is that if you ever want effects on your clean channel you’ve bypassed the loop so it’s not possible.
There’s more to this issue that will be discussed in Part 2.
Coming Soon…Part 2.
Please Leave A Comment below and Share Your Thoughts.
More Soon, Bob
Hopefully this post has shed a little light on the importance of Gain Structure within you effects loop.
Share your thoughts and opinions with us.
I have a GT8, the set up is a little different than the Digitech. Same rule applies?
Thanks Bob,
I’ve done the dry patch already, and it sounds great. The problem is with my dirty channel on my amp I have a distortion pedal on as well through my gnx effects in combo. Then when I change my head to clean, that distortion pedal is still on which makes me have to turn off the gnx effect then click to clean on my head. I use the distortion pedal effect on the gnx, because I need alittle bit more than the head offers, and when they are in combo it sounds great. Im just frustrated because Im learning that this method is multiple foot commands, which is ok if im just using distorted tone but i need the flexibility of toggling back and forth. I think im realizing that it may be time to get a midi foot controller, and change my set up. Looking for some feed back on this or do I have the ability already?
Thanks again Bob
Jim
Nice article. I don’t like messing with pedals and all that crap because it gets in the way of the natural connection between a guitar and its amp. I like it to keep it simple. However, because of this I’ll probably use more effects in the future.
Hey Scott, Yes the same rule applies. If you’re experiencing a different problem than was mentioned in this post, let me know and I’ll address that as well. Thanks.
I have just purchased a Boss GT8
I have a Marshal valve head TSL100
would the gt8 perform better in the effects loop of the marshal head or simply directly out from the gt8 into the amps front single input jack ?
Hi Jim, Midi is an option, and I can help you along with that as well, but there’s still a few things you might try… Do you have an effects loop bypass input on the back of the amp? It would be an input for a pedal to plug in and turn the loop on and off… If so, you could use this method (one button) to trigger the loop bypass and the channel switching at once. This would allow you to turn the loop off at the exact same time the channel is switched, and would solve the problem with one button. Let me know… Thanks, Bob
Hi Noah, I totally understand your point of view. I also agree with you on keeping it simple. However, there are many guitarist that run their equipment this way, and I’m hoping to help them get the most out of this type of set-up. I personally would recommend a true bypass switching system that is controlled by a simple midi pedal-board. This type of setup allows you to run anything through it… such as pedals, rack gear, amp switching and any combination of those things. The real beauty is that everything is “Hard Bypassed” when it’s not being used. This allows 100% of the natural amp tone to shine through. Thanks, Bob
No, there’s no input just a bypass switch for loop red and orange channels, and like you said above I like effects along with my clean as well.
Hey Nelz, If you are using the GT8 for effects ONLY, then yes, it’s best to run the unit through the send and return of your effects loop… BUT, if you are also using the GT8 as your main distortion or amp modeling, then you would plug your guitar directly into the GT8 and come out of the GT8 and go directly into the “return” on the effects loop. This would allow you to run the raw GT8 signal directly into the Power Amp portion of the Marshall. I would not recommend driving the GT8 into the front of the amp at all… There’s no benefit. Hope that helps…
@ Jim, is there a possibility of using an internal distortion within the Digitech to get the extra gain you need, and eliminate the distortion pedal? If so, That would allow you to program patches with and without the extra distortion. This would give you the ability to have effects and your natural amp clean sound together. If not, we may need to explore some basic midi solutions. I am curious though… Did you say you’re not getting enough gain out of the Mesa Boogie itself?
Thanks for being here for us Bob! I recently switched my set-up from analog pedals to a GT-10. I run the GT-10 throught the effects loop of my 6505+ and I use the amps distortion. The GT-10 is very versatile and I like the quality of it’s effects. I’m thinking of getting a midi unit to link my amps channel switching to the GT-10. I am not a fan of the distorion/overdrive on the GT-10. I like to use a graphic EQ on top of the normal EQ(s) and adjust the gain settings within the graphic EQ for a “boost”. Cheers!
@ Jeff, Thank You and You’re welcome! You’re definitely on the right track. I’ve also used an EQ for a volume, gain, and frequency bump for leads… It works great! I’m also a fan of the live amp distortion over the digital modeling amps. As far a recording goes they work great. I think the actual effects within the multi-effects units sound really good, but the actual tube amp distortion is what I always go for.
I use a vamp pro, a marshall 100 watt MG head and a sonic maximizer rackmount, yet i find my tone from the vamp as really thin in a live setting. Perhaps i should upgrad to a digitech gsp 1101?
Thanks for the helpful article. Though i do not own this specific gear yet, i do plan on building a rig in the future. This article will help me, thx.
Thanks Bob for your concern for my passion for guitar. Here in Nigeria, we don’t use effects(most guys here are into different style of music like afro beat). But I’m moved by this article, cause I’m really so into heavy metal, being a beginner I’m being poked by friends for my passion for the killer guitar. Believe me, I aspire to use these effects no doubt!
@ Jason, I really don’t think that upgrading to the Digitech GSP 1101 is the complete answer to your problem.
The first thing I would recommend is removing the Sonic Maximizer from your chain during this testing process… Maybe permanently… I’ve used them in the past and they always seem like a good idea at first, but the truth is I’ve always had to remove them from the signal path because of the un-desired way it changed the tone and signal. More on the BBE later….
If you’re going to continue using the V-amp I would suggest plugging the guitar directly into the V-amp and coming out of the V-amp directly into the “return” of the effects loop on the Marshall. This way you’re using the V-amp in the way it was meant to be used, and you still have the “Power Amp” sound of the Marshall.
You’ll probably need to go and set up a few new patches on the V-amp to match this new set-up, but it’s well worth it. This should make a huge difference in your sound immediately. (for the better of course;-)
NOTE: keep in mind when you use this set-up you’re bypassing the Marshall pre-amp section, therefore none of the preamp controls on the Marshall will be functional… Only the overall main volume of the Marshall is functional.
I would crank up the Marshall “power amp” and run the V-amp as your Master volume. This set-up should rock for you.
Hope this helps.
Bob
@ Izzat, You’re welcome!
Be sure to see (part.2) as it may help you further decide what is best for you.